Was Luke's character assassinated in TLJ?

Well, between no and yes, I would have to side more with yes.

I felt they could have done more with Luke is all. Rian had Luke Skywalker and he kind of fumbled the football.

 

Sense him? Vader couldn't sense blast in ANH.
He wasn't even sure Obi-Wan was alive on the damn Death Star. Shouldn't he have sensed Luke on the Falcon using the force?
At no point could he sense Leia was of his progeny?
She didn't even kinda sorta remind him of Padme?

 

Read my first post more carefully. I agree with everything you say here. It's not his shame or his hiding from it that's the problem.

 

And I addressed that already. It's not out of character at all.
Obi-Wan tried to kill Anakin, his non-biological brother, his padawan, his best friend...because he saw what he was turning into and had no choice.
Luke saw this same thing and thought of stopping it before it started.
He didn't. He was tempted but resisted.

 

Just amazes me that people did not want character development from Luke Skywalker after 30 years , just wow. Gary sue Luke. Thats truly what fans wanted, and same fans that are now hating Rey saving she has nowhere to go from here cause SHES A MARY SUE. I had criticism before but she grew on me. People cant have it both ways. Its not unprecedented for Luke to go in exile...Obi Wan and Yoda hid while the Rebellion fought on, you dont think Yoda(who nearly defeated the emperor ) and Obi Wan (Who left Vader for dead) wouldnt have been a HUGE help to Ahsoka, Kanan and Ezra?

Ilove the Luke Skywalker character development , and i think some fans should ask themselves if theyre Star Wars fans, or just fans of A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi films. We are 9 Star Wars movies in now and if some people are only a fan of 3 of them? Just ask yourself that question and dont set yourself up for dissatisfaction anymore,and this isnt directed at you OP

 

I’m not sure what is meant by this thread...I can tell you that the 32 year old version of me is absolutely “character assasinating” the 2 year old version of me, and that the 62 year old version of me is likely also going to “character assassinate” the 32 version of me. I’m a different person for sure. You don’t even have to go that far - my life philosophy over only the past 15 years has changed tremendously. The characters are different. But we call that difference character growth, not character assassination. It’s a natural part of life.

People grow older, wiser, different with time. Luke detached from a world he realized he couldn’t change, but he still loved and cared deeply for those he was close to. That early scene with him and R2...that later scene with him and Leia...his self-sacrifice and becoming one with the Force. He’s still Luke for sure. Just a matured Luke, a Luke who has undergone character growth, not character assassination.

 

So you're saying that because it's in Obi-wan's character to kill Anakin, it makes sense for Luke to kill Kylo?
But- they're different people. They have completely different backgrounds and motivations.

If you're trying to say that as a general principle, Jedi sometimes kill those they are close to, I guess that could be true at times. But not true for Luke. Luke wouldn't kill his father who was demonstrably evil. Why would he kill his sister's son, a child, whom he only suspected of being evil?

Maybe Obi-wan might kill Kylo- he's a great example of a perfect Jedi who never lets feelings get in the way- but not Luke. He's not as detached as Obi-wan.

 

I don’t think you can compare ROTJ Luke with ST Luke. Circumstances have changed. Young Luke went through trials but never anything as severe as his nephew turning to the dark side and the subsequent loss of life of a number of his students. There is nothing in his past that compares to this, especially since he finds himself personally responsible. There is no way to predict how he would respond. Add that to the fact that he discovers that the Jedi Order was full of failures, it makes sense that he would doubt the need for the Jedi to continue to exist. However, in the end after learning from Yoda to accept his failure and to use it as a teaching tool, we do see the Luke of old. One who using the Force in a powerful and never before seen way sacrifices himself in order to save his sister, and the Resistance while giving hope to the rest of the galaxy.

 

I mean...the argument is faulty because Luke DOESN’T kill Kylo. In fact, I would argue that Luke came a lot closer to killing Vader than he ever did to killing Ben. He had moments of human weakness with both, a natural response and revulsion to evil-easier to kill it than spare it.

But the point is, Luke does spare both Vader and Kylo. His character is consistent. His withdrawal from society is more out of his realization he can’t rid the world of evil rather than shame over that moment with Ben. He realizes that he’s no different than the Jedi of the past, that training new Jedi alone is not enough to rid the galaxy of the dark side’s influence.

 

No it makes sense for Obi-Wan to try to kill Anakin because he needed to believe he was dead for the sake of ANH.

It makes sense for Luke to come to same conclusion that evil should be vanquished since Obi-Wan and Yoda were his Masters but in a very Luke move, he chose not to.
Just like he chose not to kill Vader despite what they said.
In the end, Luke again chose not to kill, even if the temptation was there, just like it was with Vader. You saw the rage and the anger in the fight with Vader.
It's not out of character for him to have those moments. It's not out of character for him to realize that's not the right way.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2017 ---

That's the point.
Luke would experience similar things as Obi-Wan re: killing a loved one but unlike Obi-Wan Luke shows the ability to pull back...

 

It's out of character for Luke to even be in the room, standing over Kylo's bed, with his lightsaber drawn, ready to kill him. As I said, Vader is much worse than Kylo, who was only a kid who apparently never killed anyone. And his sister's child.

Luke went to Vader to confront him, and didn't want to kill him from the start, even though Luke was a very young Jedi who perhaps didn't have the skill for that. He walked into Kylo's room with a very different, darker intent, and a much different, younger, and arguably innocent target. He shouldn't have been there at all.

Further, it's not entirely clear how the attack on Kylo is stopped- we see one thing from Kylo's point of view and another from Luke's. It's clear that Rey sides with Kylo on whose viewpoint is more accurate- she nearly beats Luke senseless over it.

 

1. Yeah, I sense a presence I haven't felt sense.....darn that Obi Wan. Tarkin had to attempt to reassure him that Obi Wan is dead and there are no more Jedi.

2.The force is strong with this one while following Luke's x wing

What was he supposed to say Hey this is my long lost boy that I was told was never born.

3. Yeah Leia wasn't using the wilfully using the force. He didn't know up until ESB one child survived much less the 2nd unknown child. When he reads Luke's thoughts he sure found out pretty quick.

It is clearly stated in rebels when Obi Wan and Maul fight what he is doing there.

There is no rebels alliance up until a few years before ANH.

 

We watched a different movie.
Luke at first lies.
Kylo then tells what he believes to be the truth.
The Luke tells what is most likely the actual truth.

Rey doesn't believe Kylo more than Luke.
She is being manipulated by Snoke to see light in him. She doesn't WANT to believe Luke.

And Luke is toying with her until she pulls the lightsaber. He is never "beaten near senseless" or even remotely close to it.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2017 ---

1. Again not sure. He doesn't out right say he KNOWS.

2. Again, later right under his nose but also completely MISSES THAT IT IS HIS SON.
Yes, you know, because he could apparently sense it all the way Tattoine so why couldn't he sense it five Maclunkey feet away?

3. Well yeah I find things out to when someone tells me the answer. Shouldn't he have been able to "feel" it though?

 

The failures has been known for the past 50 some odd years in a GFFA. Why is Luke just finding out about this.

Sure he can change. People change all the time. Didn't need or expect superLuke fighting the FO like RoboCop. But to go off and damn the galaxy rule by the dark side is a little extreme.

 

I’m still not seeing the out of character. My recollection was that Luke goes to Ben’s room to sense his mind because he was noticing some dark stuff coming from the kid during training. When he realized just how lost the kid’s mind was in the dark side, he goes through a moment of weakness, turns on the lightsaber in revulsion, then turns it off. So he never goes there to kill the kid, but to get confirmation as to whether or not what he was sensing was really happening. He probably wanted to do this in private while the kid was sleeping because who wants to walk up to their nephew and be like “I’m starting to get a sociopath vibe from you.”

And, just to play devil’s advocate, assume you are right and he goes there to kill the kid. He did the same thing in ROTJ. He knew he would have to kill his dad if he couldn’t redeem him. He wanted to test his dad first though. Luke does that here as well, but by reading the boy’s mind. He senses the evil, reacts, retracts from that reaction, and that sets the scene.

All Luke-like reactions in my opinion.

 

Luke lies, and then is forced to tell the truth because Kylo Ren, a Dark Side menace, tells the truth.
There's more character assassination right there, I'd say.

 

Ok we can agree to disagree about theories of if he should have sensed the children of his that he did not know existed.

But yes it is flat out said he feels the presence of Obi Wan

INT. DEATH STAR - CONFERENCE ROOM Darth Vader paces the room as Governor Tarkin sits at the far end of the conference table. VADER He is here... TARKIN Obi-Wan Kenobi! What makes you think so? VADER A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master. TARKIN Surely he must be dead by now.

 

Lmao did you just say alien covenant was intellectual and that’s why people didn’t like it? That was funny. Same goes for TLJ. The movie isn’t intellectual because they talk more and have better camera pans.

 

I like your explanation. If I'm wrong about this, it could save the movie for me, seriously. That's just not the sequence of events I recall, though I'd happy to be mistaken. And there's the difference in viewpoint from Kylo's perspective that muddies the water.

But still, to think of killing a kid who hasn't actually done anything- that violates most modern cultures' sense of justice. As Yoda pointed out, "Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future." Surely Luke knows this. We all do. Pre-crime control is for Minority Report, not for Star Wars.

I will watch the movie differently next time, though. Thanks for your conversation.

 

Pre-judgment definitely goes a Minority Report route of criminal justice. Not something we’re usually okay with in society.

But I’m pretty sure of my recollection. I’ve seen the movie 3 times now and those are the beats of Luke’s final telling of what happened. Now if you’re saying Luke was lying in his final explanation of what happened...then maybe there’s something more to this and we should further discuss.