Was Luke's character assassinated in TLJ?

No.

 

Luke didn’t lie, he said he “went to confront him (about his dark side future) and he turned on me”.
Kylo says “he sensed my power and feared it”.
Luke then tells Rey the whole story, how he sensed his future and it was worse than he ever imagined and that in a brief moment he thought he could stop it, but it passed like a fleeting shadow. He was left with shame and consequence.

One thing we must all stop assuming is that Ben Solo hadn’t done anything yet. If his heart had already been turned by Snoke, it probably took some evil actions. There isn’t one example in this universe of someone having turned but only in their mind and heart. Usually there are some actions like slaughtering women and children sand people or killing an unarmed prisoner, etc. Ben Solo did something for Snoke to be able to gain his loyalties. Why kill the students just because Uncle Luke feared your power? Snoke planted the seeds. Snoke manipulated this whole thing. Leia was always wiser than Luke. She was probably right that this was Snokes handiwork all along.

 

Okay? Im not questioning why Obi was there. I clearly understood. We also know Lukes reasoning, its clear, we get 2 hours plus reason why, as opposed to 5 mins if we are comparing their explanation of self exile in their given medium . What makes one reason why, more valid than the other? Its in different context, my point is that it isnt unprecedented

 

Assassinated? Hell no.
They (JJ, RJ, Kasdan) improved the character. They made Luke more humam and at the same time they (RJ) created a legend. I loved Luke like this.

 

This. They made him interesting. We and Hamill should all be very thankful to RJ for having the bravery to provide us with a complicated Luke rather than a borish, virtuous monk.

 

Not really. If we want to be precise, his death was more of a result of a suicide.

 

I'm thinking ghost Luke will clarify some things in Ep9 much like Obi-Wan did in RotJ.

But honestly, they could have gone anywhere with Luke and they chose to go this way. I kind of expected they'd make him grumpy and bitter because so far we've had Obi-Wan who was kind and a mentor and Yoda who was eccentric. Two more optimistic views. Rehashing those 2 would have been boring. Luke was never a perfect Jedi, he was built by Yoda to lope off the head of the snake, and he chose a route I don't think Yoda would have counseled (judging by his character assassination in the PT, but that's another thread lol).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of everything they did with Luke, but after 30 years, there was really no where they couldn't go. I'm just happy they didn't make him the big bad in this trilogy.

As for people trying to convince others that their view is right and others are wrong, I think there's plenty of that going on both sides.

I stay away from threads that are clearly marked in a positive light for this addition to this SW installment out of respect for those who are enjoying it. I'm sure some don't have that same respect though. As someone who disliked TLJ, I apologize on their behalf.

I also don't understand why people who like the film go on threads that are clearly going to upset them because TLJ isn't put in a good light. We're all allowed to our opinions here.

Then there are the ambiguous threads that invite both sides to present their views. I'm relatively new to this forum, but I'm impressed as to how civil members are in those threads. There are exceptions to the rule, but honestly, TLJ tested us all, but these fans who disagree with us test us even further. It's not a crime or betrayal to read and heed the words from a different point of view, maybe it can lead to greater appreciation and respect of another perspective. I think that's a good thing. It's okay to admit things weren't perfect in the movie, just as it's okay to admit you interpreted something differently, but in light of an argument, it could make more sense another way.

In any event, thanks for the discussions, they're fun and interesting. For me so far, the good I gleaned form TLJ is finding these forums .

 

Looks like 63.4% of people disagree with you and doesn't reflect your bias. You can keep on making new threads bashing the movie, most of your arguments are weak and isn't going to change my opinion and other people's opinion of TLJ. You and maybe like 3 other members keep on repeatedly making negative threads. There is a already a dedicated "hate" thread, stay in there and get your "fix" in there. When I buy the bluray of TLJ, i'll make sure I dedicate it to your name.

 

That comes after he just senses something but isn't 100% certain.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2017 ---

Vader didn't lie about being Luke's dad.
Obi-Wan did lie about his dad being dead.

Oh no. Character assassinated.

Or....we tell lies to people we care about and we want to protect, including ourselves, from the harsh realities of life.
Lies aren't always malicious in nature.

Luke was clearly struggling.
Rey likely wouldn't understand.

He told a mostly true story.

Kylo didn't outright tell the truth either.
Luke never attempted to strike him down.
Only thought about it.
Kylo implies Luke was swinging the saber down.
Luke in his moment of clarity admits to lighting the saber but not acting on it.

Kylo just BELIEVES his version is the truth.

 

Spoiler: Spoilers- Also, this is super long, so I figured this could save some page space :)

No, the character wasn't assassinated, he just became one with the Force after exertion.


Joking aside, look at what we have from the canon (movies, since there is little else right now regarding Luke)-

A New Hope- Luke, a brash and somewhat whiny farmboy with a talent for flying and a sense for romantic heroism, is established as Force Sensitive.

The Empire Strikes Back- Luke, now more powerful in the Force, continues his training. He leaves the Rebel Alliance in their darkest hour, in the hope that he can return as a more powerful Jedi. As part of his training, Yoda tells Luke that a Jedi uses the Force for defense and knowledge, not attack. However, his training is cut short when he leaves to go rescue his friends (refer to ANH for his sense of romantic heroism) against the warning of his master Yoda. In the end, the only reason Luke's attempt at a rescue mission doesn't end with his death and the annihilation of the last hope is because Vader tries to turn Luke rather than kill him. Nevertheless, the mission is still essentially a failure, with Luke shook both physically and emotionally, and Han unable to have been saved.

Return of the Jedi- A much more powerful and collected Luke enters the film, and it's not long before he begins going absolutely ham on Jabba's minions. Later in the film, we see Luke struggle more with violence- he alternates between holding back and unleashing his rage against Vader, even noting how he is able to best Vader in combat when he fully gives in to violence and the Dark Side. In the end, though, it is not through violence, but through his refusal of it that the Empire is toppled.

Then, what we know of the Jedi:

The Phantom Menace- The earliest we see of the Jedi in film. They're peacekeepers- mostly nonviolent, as we see even in their refusal to do much about the slaves on Tatooine. We also see that they're deeply entrenched in politics, both interior and within the senate. They're so dogmatic that they even initially refuse to train Anakin, ironically stating that his fear could be dangerous (themselves evidentally afraid of training him). We also learn they're getting rather...er... impotent with the force.

Attack of the Clones- We see the Jedi becoming more warlike, and what starts out as a simple protection mission eventually becomes an all out, galactic war. Now, it's easy to brush off the Jedi's violence since it's directed (mostly) at droids, but we now have a heavily militarized order. In addition, though they started the film mostly suspicious of the Sifo-Diyas conspiracy (and this suspicion is sometimes, though rarely, explored further in the Clone Wars TV show) they're mostly pretty naively trusting of the clone troopers. An act that will, ultimately, end quite terribly.

Revenge of the Sith- The reckoning of the Jedi. In the very first few seconds of the film, we hear drums of war and see Coruscant's skies engulfed in chaos (which is obviously very metaphorical, too). Obviously, we see their reckoning when they're defeated by the very symbols of the war- the war hero Anakin Skywalker, and the clone troopers they worked so long with, along with the Supreme Chancellor who led the war himself.


So, TLDR we know a few things from this:
1) The Jedi were already becoming corrupt by the time Naboo fell under blockade

2) The Clone Wars made the Jedi warlike, which ultimately did not play to their strengths and identity, despite still being extremely capable warriors, and they fell.

3) Yoda, having clearly learned from the Clone Wars, taught Luke in a different way- a more pacifist way.

4) Luke, having left his training early, went to attack Vader and save his friends. Much like the Clone Wars, this aggression went poorly.

5) In confronting Vader a second time, Luke learns that the only true victory is through compassion and pacifism, and defeats both Vader and the Emperor this way.

So, that takes us to the sequel trilogy:

The Force Awakens- Luke is a "legend" a source of hope for a galaxy that needs it. He is gone, however. In the wake of the destruction of the seat of the Republic at the Hosnian system, he is sought after, to restore that spark of hope to the galaxy. The film ends on his face, and the audience wonders for two years what his intentions are.

The Last Jedi- Luke immediately makes it clear that he will not return to the galaxy. It is eventually revealed that he believes the Jedi are to blame for the problems of the galaxy, and well... in a way, they are. Looking at that past list, we see how flawed the Jedi were, and how they were always a catalyst to escalate violence. However, by the end of the film, with Yoda's insistence, Luke realizes that it was not the Jedi or the light side that was flawed, but their endless dogmatism. In such, by using the Force, Luke is able to singlehandedly stall for the Resistance, humiliate Kylo Ren, and (most importantly) spark hope in the galaxy (as seen in the film's final, important scene)... all without any actual violence. That's crazy impressive, and in fact the film may have well have been called "The First Jedi", given how this is the first time we've seen a Jedi truly, or at least the closest we've seen them to approaching their intent and potential.

So no, Luke's character wasn't "assassinated". In fact, I think it's the best thing they could have done.


That being said- did he need to die? That, to me, is the only real question. I'm not in love with his death, but I don't think we'll truly understand the necessity (or lack thereof of it) until the final film in the trilogy.

TLDR- Totally not character assassination!

 

To me the single biggest issue BY FAR with TLJ was the way the character of Luke Skywalker was handled. Not only did the character seem so “out of character” to me (and also Mark Hamill) I saw his usage as a huge missed opportunity.

Who doesn’t want to see more adventures with Luke? How is SW better without Luke, but with characters like Po and Rose? To end his character in this film just seemed so anticlimactic...It would have been spectacular to see Luke show up at the end and decimate the New Order (in person) at the end of the film and if they insist on killing of the classic characters in favor of the new lesser characters (I’ll never understand this) hold off until the next film...It would have been far more effective to see the entire trilogy end with Luke becoming one with the force in Episode 9 than the way it happened in TLJ.

 

Remember- just because he's one with the Force doesn't mean his story is over.

 

Clearly when a Jedi is dead they never bring them back.
I really liked that green dude they added to TLJ who certainly wasn't Yoda because Yoda is dead.

 

Well, I was thinking the same thing (actually started a thread about it to clarify what was going on) obviously it was Yoda and Yoda also clearly interacted with the physical world. Geoge Lucas had at one point considered bring Obi Wan back into the physical world...Is Luke’s story truly done? Could he return?

 

I'm not taking anything personal. I'm not creating multiple threads to bash a movie. For a movie that you dislike so much, you sure are putting a lot of energy into it. You stated that you only care about the poll results to prove that TLJ is bad movie and or "assassinated" Luke's character. Apparently everyone disagrees with you and it looks like now 68% of the people who did the polled also disagree with you. I'm just pointing out how silly you and few people are acting. If the PT didn't kill SW, nothing will. SW killer TLJ, is not.

 

It would have helped this situation quite a bit if they had done a little exposition of what it was exactly that Kylo did. Luke said he sensed the dark side rising, and then there were some incidents in his training. What incidents? Luke never says. Why not? He's trying to explain his actions, actions that he deeply regrets. There's no logical reason for him to leave out something heinous that Kylo did, as that would only bolster his argument.

I get the feeling that at this point, Luke doesn't believe his own rationalizations. Why should we?

 

This film in no way is a “franchise killer” but there are a lot of people who have legitimate complaints against it.

 

Luke might not know the half of what Ben did. If they showed Ben being a monster as a kid or teen, then the audience isn’t allowed to see things through Rey’s eyes. It would have ruined the drama of the Snoke/KyloRey/Praetorian guards scene.

I’m sure this info will come out. Perhaps J.J. will revisit. It wasn’t essential to know details of what Luke saw. He made it clear through his words and emotions on the subject.

 

Exactly. Explicitly showing what Luke saw puts you into Luke's POV and not Rey's. That story is meant to be seen from Rey's POV where you aren't always sure who is telling the truth. You are finding out where your beliefs and allegiances lie, just like she is.