Was Luke's character assassinated in TLJ?

Can you elaborate on this? Ben in line to be prince of what??

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 30, 2017 ---

Ah found it, interesting:

Twenty-four years after the Battle of Endor, the Inner Rim planet of Birren, settled by explorers from Alderaan and Arkanis, suffered the death of its ruling monarch, Lord Mellowyn. His closest living relative was Senator Organa, who thought Ben Solo was still a Jedi, was not interested in its governorship—nor did she believe that Ben would be interested in succeeding her one day. The title passed to Lady Carise Sindian. Shortly thereafter, the truth about Organa's parentage was revealed by her political enemies, including Lady Sindian, in the Galactic Senate. Organa had yet to tell her son about Darth Vader, and she worried about how he would react after finding out about it in such a public way.[6]

 

Just wondering, was his "character assassinated" when he very nearly slaughtered his own father?

 

Sorry I misquoted, governor

All of this is in this Bloodline book. I read it but it was boring. This is basically the summary.

You must succeed Lord Mellowyn, just as your son must someday succeed you.Sindian, to Leia Organa on the topic of the governorship of Birren

Basically some governor died, since the plant was founded by settlers from Alderaan and another planet Leia was next in line and Kylo after her. The girl who is 3rd in line found a box with a note saying Leia was the daughter of Vadar. Even though Leia turned in down, Kylo was next in line, so the 3rd in line person released what she found. It caused a big controversy, Leia quit the Senate, wrote a note to Kylo saying she is sorry she didn't tell him, 3rd in charge girl was secretly funneling money to the FO. 3rd in line girl makes a Senate speech saying Luke and his new Jedi might start using there powers for evil.

Leia goes on some mission, gets in for about 3rd in line girl being corrupt, 3rd in line girl gets her title stripped. Leia quits and form the resistance.

So yeah. There is nothing but speculation of what Kylo was doing up until this point in his life, maybe he was torturing cats. But apparently all this went down around the time Kylo was 23-24. He finds out he is Vadars grandchild, catches Like trying to knock him off, and then turns to the dark side.

All of this seems like it could have been resolved over the Solo dinner table when the boy was 10.

 

And maybe Luke had the vision (when he decided to murder Kylo) that he would murder Han & Leia...

That was his weakness in ESB...

 

No, of course not, that is when Luke's good reputation was cemented. Killing his father would have been perfectly understandable after all he had done at that point and in the heat of battle, yet he showed an admirable compassion.
What is not understandable is someone contemplating killing a family member in his sleep, no matter how people try to justify this, it is not acceptable behavior for a normal person, much less for a compassionate hero.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 30, 2017 ---

Thanks buddy, yes I found it on wookiepedia just after I asked.

 

With this book being the only cannon I know of plus what is seen in the 2 ST movies concerning Kylo Ren the early years, all of this seems like a pretty pathetic excuse to turn to the dark side, let the FO take over, let the Jedi die, kill your daddy, etc, etc, etc.

So it is pretty sad and pathetic on the part of Luke, Leia, Han Solo, Kylo Ren, etc.

 

In order to decide something, it needs to be carried out.

I missed the scene where he murdered Kylo

Ahh yes the good old "family member" like we are talking about boy scouts at a sleepover.

The context for him was the same in those two moments....and in those two moments Luke decided not to kill his "family member"

Why the outrage over TLJ and not the same over ROTJ?

 

The idea that you are even comparing both situations as if they were remotely similar is quite troubling.

 

And again... Luke has a Rocky-Creed treatement for his character that I really like.

It's the same character... but in different period of his life and in a totally different role:

In this new trilogy, Luke is a failed teacher that needs redemption. It's not the Luke we knew in the OT. It's different. And I am pretty sure we'll see more of him in Episode 9.

Distracting the First Order to save the New Rebellion is not the end of his arc. He still has a great deal of things to pass to Rey... and maybe Kylo... in the last chapter of this trilogy.... whatever form he will be in.


By the way... the main question from TLJ... where are Ben Kenobi and Anakin?

 

Darth Vader was the embodiment of true evil, and Luke's family member.

Kylo was becoming the embodiment of true evil, and Luke's family member.

I see some similarity there.

 

Ok he is a failed teacher, because Kylo turned to the dark side at age 23-24. Soon after he finds out that Gramps was Vadar. He is a grown man he is not some little boy.

This is the only cannon we have to base the reason for his turn. Maybe he was torturing kittens, who knows. The only thing in cannon is this timeline of events plus Leia and Han Solo making excuses it was all Snokes fault. Ok. What was Snoke doing, he sure wasn't telling him your are Vadars grandchild. What does this have anything to do with Luke or his teachings??? What did he fail at, not telling Kylo what Kylos parents should told him when he was 10??

So far what I have seen in cannon it is harder to get a hit put on you by Tony Soprano then old Uncle Luke.

 

Ok those are the similarities but how about the differences?

Remember all the things Vader and the empire had already done at that point, not only to the galaxy but to Luke himself. (Owen and Beru's murder, Ben's murder, his sister's torture, his sister's whole planet was destroyed, he cut his hand, he almost killed his best friend, he turn him in to the emperor, he threatened to turn his sister to the dark side).
Remember everyone told Luke that Vader was irredeemable but he insisted to the very end and risked his life to try to save him. Remember Vader is his enemy in a a war and they are in the heat of battle and despite all of this Luke shows compassion and forfeits his life instead of trying to kill him.
Now please tell me if you honestly believe that is even remotely comparable to what Luke does with Ben just because he "sensed too much darkness".

If you nephew is sleeping at your home and you find his diary and it says he is going to kill his family and schoolmates. Do you pull a gun on him?

 

Depends if you're equating a diary with a mind meld to see into one's future.

Visions have always been upsetting from what we've seen in the films so far, especially for Anakin and Luke. Anakin suffered night terrors, essentially. Luke's experience in the cave moves him to violence. Luke gets upset and loses focus when seeing Han and Leia suffer. Rey stumbles backward and is scared after touching the lightsaber. Kylo's invasion of Rey's mind was similarly violent. Rey falls off the meditation rock in the beginning of TLJ.

Film could have just as easily shown that type of effect on Luke as he peered into his student's mind, but it pulled a Rashomon on us, trying to be a bit too clever in that aspect.

 

Nope

 

If you nephew is sleeping at your home and you find his diary and it says he is going to kill his family and schoolmates. Do you pull a gun on him?

You're close, getting there. You are forgetting the rest of the context here. You are a Jedi Master, in tune with the force. Most powerful Jedi in the galaxy at that moment. This is not some boy scout outing you two are on. Your nephew is being trained in the ways of the force, and you have had premonitions/visions etc through the force telling you that Kylo will become true evil, on a galactic scale. You know his background, you know his ancestry.

Yet even with all of the above....the notion of killing him fleets through your mind and you do NOT act upon it.

 

Who is the real Luke Skywalker? For fans, and seemingly for the galaxy, he is this big heroic legend that will make. everything right. The Jedi order is gone? Luke will start a new jedi order. Ben is going bad? Luke will save him. The first order is gaining power? Luke will save the galaxy.

However, what did Luke really accomplish in the OT? In a New Hope, he encounters the robots, manage to be manipulated by artoo and lose him, get captured by sand people, get in a fight in Mos Eisley, and almost get killed, comes up with a foolish plan to rescue Leia on the death star which almost completely fail (Leia and the robots save them), and finally destroy the Death Star. So he is impulsive, naive, idealistic and brave, but a bit foolish. He does save the day by destroying the Death Star, just after Han saved his life.

In ESB, he gets captured by a wampa and barely escape with his life, get shot down by an At-At, crashes on Dagobah, is rather unpleasant with eccentric Yoda, refuse to believe what Yoda teaches him, fails in the cave, fails with the x-wing, and rushes to rescue his friends, disobeying Yoda, fails big time in his rescue mission, gets in a fight with Vader and barely escape with his life. So once again he is impulsive and foolish.

In ROTJ, he comes up with a plan to rescue Han, force choke to guards, fails in his negociation and end up in the Rancor pit, is captured, and almost thrown in the sarlacc pit, he kills some mooks while Han rescue Lando and Leia rescue herself, goes back to Yoda to finish his training but Yoda dies, goes on Endor with his friends and rescue them from the Ewoks but run away to confront Vader, try to kill the Emperor but is stopped by Vader, goes berserk on Vader and almost kills him, and realise he is falling to the darkside so he stop just in time and prefer to die than become a new vader. Vader kills the emperor, Han Solo blows up the shields and Lando destroy the Death Star.

So, while Luke is my favorite character, he never was this big hero that saved the galaxy from the Empire. It can be argued that his presence on the second Death Star didn’t change the outcome. Maybe the Emperor and Vader would have died when the death star was destroyed regardless of his presence. His journey in the OT was much more about personal growth.

In the ST, we see Luke trying to live up to his reputation by rebuilding the Jedi order, and what is the result? The death of many young jedi, and the creation of a new Vader. He goes to the first Jedi temple to seek some answers, finds none and decide to end the Jedi, feeling that it’s the source of all the pain in the galaxy.

 

Not a fair comparison.

Yoda and Obi Wan went into self exile not out of shame, not out of self-pity, but to preserve the Jedi Order so that one day they could pass on what they had learned when the time was right.

Yoda - "Until the time is right, disappear we will"

They helped the Rebellion and the Galaxy far more by hiding than they ever would have by fighting along side the Rebels, and possibly dying before "the time was right".

By hiding they allowed themselves to live long enough to set Luke on his way to have his part in defeating the Sith. Without the destruciton of the Sith, the Rebellion could blow up 30 Death Stars, they would have never won.

True Yoda had his reservations after meeting Luke, but, it still doesn't change the how's and why's of Yoda's self exile being completely different than Luke's

Where as Luke, well, he goes into self exile not to preserve the Jedi Order, but to kill it. He's not waiting to train the next hope for the galaxy, he's hoping to die miserable and alone. Galaxy's biggest pity party.

 

"Luke Skywalker would never be tempted by the dark side and raise a lightsaber against a member of his own family! It's not in his character at all!"

Yeah..about that...

 

Absolutely Luke's character was assassinated.
He crept in to a young family members room while they were sleeping, with a weapon, and contemplated MURDERING A CHILD! That's psychotic behavior even if he did stop him self at the last moment.

No matter how you slice it, Luke betrayed Ben, a young boy in his care.

And let's talk about Luke's "redemption' at the end, it wasn't heroic, it was lazy.
So he force projects to the planet of salt to trick the first order in to thinking he's there...but, so what?
Consider:
1) there might not have been a back way out of the base
2) the rebels might not have found the back exit from the cave (they only found it in time because of the salt fox things)
3) Rey might not have randomly landed at the other side of the cave (still not sure as to how she knew were to be. another force power I guess)
4) Rey might not have been able to lift the rocks out of the way.

If any of those things have happened Luke would have just annoyed Kylo Ren for a few minutes before they killed Leia and the rest of the rebels. All because Luke was to lazy to leave the island and show up in person.


So to sum up, TLJ Luke
Has Psychotic tendencies.
Betrayed the trust of a young family member in his care.
To lazy to physically go to the aid of his sister and her group.

 

I think people are missing an important aspect of this. The main point isn’t that Luke messed up Ben’s training somehow but that he had utterly failed to see how far gone Ben was before it was too late. The “almost striking him down” error aside, Luke’s issue was that he lost faith in his own ability to be a mentor: how could he have missed what was happening to Ben? This is what made Luke question himself and the Jedi. And so when you take that and his momentary flash of dark side (weakness), it makes perfect sense why he went into exile. He wasn’t just depressed and sad - he had lost faith in himself and the Force.