SPECULATION Rendemption - Evidence For & Against A Return To Light

Hello!
I know kids can understand complex concepts, but I'm worried that Lucasfilm might not be aware of that. So many movies are overly simplified just to appeal to children, and I have no idea why, you'd think everyone knows kids are smart enough to understand difficult issues. So I'm just assuming that the filmmakers might see dark+light as too hard to digest...hopefully I'm wrong.

You bring up a very interesting point with "Light" being used instead of "good". But I think Light is pretty much a synonym for Good in lack of a better word. And that's just the problem. Light is automatically good and perfectly separated from dark in this franchise, they've been stressing it for 40 years now. I think it's different in the EU, I don't know, I never read any of the books. But the movies are based on very simplistic ideas, and that's what the general audience is interested in. And in the movies no one ever mentions (I think) that there's no light without dark, that the 2 sides of the force need each other in order to exist. I don't know if that's even true, but that's how I see it since it just doesn't make sense for the force to work differently. Meanwhile, the movies are all about running away from/defeating the dark side, and send the message that dark=evil. It would be awesome if they changed that in the sequel trilogy, but I'm not sure Lucasfilm is willing to do it. I'm sure fans wouldn't have a problem with it but who knows what choices will be made.

 

they might surprise us. again, there's been a big emphasis on this idea of balance.

and it seems like the merchandise geared specifically for children has described Ren as "sad" or "angry" and avoided calling him straight up "evil". there's a sensitivity there that doesn't seem to be just about sparing young children the enormity of his monstrous behavior (because there's no getting around that).

the Little Golden Book version of TFA uses the word "evil", but phrases it as he "has been turned to evil by Supreme Leader Snoke".
in a children's book in which we never even need to see Snoke, he is blamed for Ren's condition.



as a side note, this may be the only place i've ever seen him called "Ben Solo". does that make it canon? hahaha

 

Well, they're describing Kylo Ren exactly the way he is Children know what's up, but Lucasfilm tries to make it perfectly clear, probably preparing them for his redemption.
I really do hope they go for "grey" Kylo Ren, he has the potential to be the embodiment of the balance in the force when it's finally achieved. We already know that he was born with potential for both good and evil, and he has been both a Jedi and a dark force user, so if there's a perfect candidate for a living symbol of the balance, it's him. It's hard to believe Lucasfilm would miss this opportunity, but I don't want to get my hopes up.

And you know, I always thought his name is Ben Skywalker Solo. Because sKYwalker +soLO=Kylo. I don't know why it would be Skywalker instead of Organa, but who knows?

 

i think he's a great candidate for balance too: someone who's been touched by both Light and Dark.

as for the name, i seriously doubt he's got Skywalker in there anywhere, but if it would make the Skywalker fans happy, power to it!

Ben Chewbacca Organa-Solo. i mean come on--what else actually makes sense? hahaha

 

Ben Organa Skywalker Solo....B.O.S.S. ha ha

 

@PrincessLeiaCB3 found this recent interview with Adam Driver in which he is asked (among other things) for information about episode viii.
Driver has a dry sense of humor and none of what he says should be taken as indicative of anything revealing/concrete: he's horsing around.

nevertheless, i am amused by the fact that he chose "crying" over something perhaps more obvious to the character, like rage, when asked for an expression.

 

I thought exactly the same thing when I saw this interview a couple of days ago! "You know I wear a mask {for} a lot of it so it's mostly {me} crying". Indeed, it is so curious that he chose crying instead of rage or anger...Is that a Freudian slip there or what?

 

That is very cool! One red eye like the Terminator I guess it could be an easter egg, it doesn't look like a glitch and the shot focused on his face, it's hard to believe they would just "drop" red light on his eye accidentally.

 

There is some hope since they have introduced the Bendu in Rebels ("..I am the one in the middle..").
Reylo has the potential to be balanced. In VII the roots of his believes start to crumble because of Rey. He is completely confused and out of balance. His master seducer will not give him a warm welcome. He will get orders that should completely cut his last bondings to his former self. Is there a point when he will loose his focus on his personal mission? It must be sthg that convinces him to the core that all the suffering was useless and that there is no chance to become what he desires most over decades. Not that easy such an erasion of everything you build your life path on. If he survives his breakdown he could be a help in the process of defining new rules for force users that prevent them to be torn apart between two extremes that are simply the opposite sides of the same medal. An enourmos message for the youth that would be..

 

I agree completely. I can't like posts yet, so I had to say it

 

Thanks!
So.. lets make a little run till you have your 30 posts!

 

My last post came out wrong the first time I wrote it, then I struggled to edit it for 10 minutes, now it's missing the username of the person that I responded to and I'm starting to get mad. What I mean to say is.... If you see crappy posts don't blame me, blame my phone, it's working against me

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2016 ---

Oh, you saw the post, good My phone is messing with me ha ha

 

well said! i believe it was Kennedy who talked about Ren being representative of a lost millennial:
handed too much and making no good use of it for lack of a proper guiding hand.
my sense is that they may want to show his reclamation as a positive message.

not a message of "oh, you chose the wrong path? chose stupidly? too bad, you're basically screwed".
but instead "oh, you chose poorly? learn and choose again, choose wisely."

people make a big thing about the killing, but the killing is really practically nothing in the fantasy world.
the heroes nonchalantly kill and cause wanton destruction without hesitation.
not that there won't be repercussions. not that killing Han wasn't something special.
but it's hardly an insurmountable obstacle to Ben's redemption.

 

From what I've heard this a future scene? Or is it the past? If Rey's mind was wiped to protect her and she later remembers Kylo saving her in ep.8. then i do agree she will turn to the dark side but I don't see how else. Kylo's family will be able to forgive him for Han's murder but I can't see her falling for him or completely forgiving him.

 

Right! And its quite easy sitting at home in a save environment (*new biedermeier style*) and judging someones crimes.
Your words remind me of my own moanings about (I call it) the golden era when everything seemed to be possible with no limitations (energy, economic growth etc.).
Kylo could become a symbol for citizens crises and often bad choices in a more and more complex galaxy where they have to find their personal balance between calling for law, order, savety etc. and the needs as an individual for personal liberties.
The balance is not found yet, perhaps the ST will provide some personified (Ren/Ben) fairy tale answers.. hope so. Inspiration is always welcome .

 

feels like we need it now more than ever!

 

Applause

 

I don't know, I just have a feeling that force vision - where Kylo stabs a warrior - could be hugely significant, and possibly a massive turning point for Kylo if he does choose to protect Rey rather than kill her in EP8.

When push comes to shove, I don't think Kylo will be capable of killing Rey, because I think his fascination and attraction to her is stronger than anything he has felt before in his entire life. He is more drawn to Rey than I believe he is to the KOR, Vader or Snoke and, after killing Han, I think he will realise that killing her will only lead him further down a path of emptiness, loneliness and misery - the same feelings I believe Vader felt about the act of killing his son Luke.

Did you see Luke forgiving Vader after their duel on Cloud City? Rey's perception of Kylo is much the same as Luke's perception of Vader pre-ROTJ, and I think Luke's major role now will be to challenge Rey's perception of Kylo.

Also, I don't see Rey falling for Kylo either, but that's not even necessary for her to forgive him.

 

My personal opinion is that I really don't want Kylo Ren to be redeemed. The two reasons why I think this is that number one, TFA already cloned ANH to much and I think it would be great if the saga expanded into a new interesting story of it's own and not just a clone of the OT. It would be awesome if Kylo Ren turns into this evil figure that has to be taken down because he fully embraces the Dark Side. Otherwise we are going to see the OT all over again without anything new. Rey learns of the Force and trains with wise old Jedi master, sees the light in Ben, tries to redeem him and when Snoke is finally about to kill Rey, Kylo redeems himself and kills Snoke. I can watch the OT if I want to see that story and don't need to see it all over again in the ST.

The second reason why I don't want Ren to turn to the Light Side is because of what he did to Han. I think that after killing Han, Ren reached the point of no return. If that wouldn't have happened then I could accept his redemption even if I still wouldn't like to see Vader's story copied but it would still be understandable but after killing Han, how does Ben simply go back to live like if nothing ever happened? Han's sacrifice would have been for nothing. How do Leia and Chewie simply give Kylo a hug and pat him on the head and welcome him home as if nothing ever happened? This is the guy who murdered Han Solo for crying out loud and Chewie saw it happen! How can Chewie become all palsy walsy with Kylo without looking at him and always seeing the crybaby dork Vader wannabe who murdered the man that was not only his best friend but more like a brother to him? How can Leia turn a blind eye when her husband was killed by her jerky son for the sole reason that he just WANTED to be evil?

I hope Kylo bites it without redemption at the end of the saga and it would be incredibly awesome if it were at the hands of Chewie. Everyone expects either he be redeemed and lives, redeemed and dies or gets killed by Snoke, Rey or even Luke but who would imagine Chewie scoring one for the good guys and being the one to score the grand victory by making this jerk who killed Han bite the dust? Now that would be epic!