THREAD FOR THOSE WHO FEEL MIXED ABOUT THE MOVIE

You heard screams and people scared when Luke looked into Ben. Basically he saw the future. I dont have the power to see my nephews future. I dont see him killing his father, I dont see him being part of an organization that destroys all the planets in a solar system. Is that really any different then being goaded. It was a shock to the system and caused his instincts to react. React for a tiny moment compared to in ROTJ where he went on for a good while before ultimately stopping.

 

The basic premise we’re given in this scene is that Luke is effectively confronted with baby Hitler. He’s given the opportunity to kill him now in order to prevent the future atrocities to follow. For a moment, he considers it - as any of us probably would too. He comes to his senses, but the damage was done.

However immediate the threat, to Luke, it wasn’t theoretical. We’re supposed to accept that he believed whatever it was he saw. Everything he loved would die because of that kid. His instinct was to protect his loved ones just like that outburst moment in ROTJ. It’s a very similar construct.

 

After watching TLJ again recently, it really struck me why I’m mixed. It feels like tv episode more than a movie. It really doesn’t advance the big picture story (we’re back to David vs Goliath Rebels vs First Order). It focuses too much on secondary stories like The First Order tracking hyperspace chase and Rose/Finn Canto Bight. The only thing it really advances is my favorite parts of Rey/Luke, Rey/Kylo and Rey/Kylo/Snoke. It really feels like a series of B plots that all transpire during the movie, as the theme is learning from mistakes. Again, that’s a solid episode of TV, but not grand enough for a movie cause I feel some things should have gotten much more time than other plot points.

 

I'm still mixed, but gotta be honest, my opinion of TLJ keeps going down.

I've come to realize that the things I *love* about the movie are mostly surface things. The visuals, the fight choreography, etc.

But the things I dislike about the movie feel more fundamental. What @Jedi77-83 said above, about not advancing the Big Picture. really rings true.

The movie also spends a ton of time hammering home a message. And that message seems to be: it's not about lineage or bloodline; anybody can be a hero.

Which of course is a great real-world message. But it's not Star Wars. Star Wars is myth. The literary definition of a Saga is literally a generational family story. This message, while true in real life, undermines the mythic nature of the Saga.

And on TOP of that, it's redundant. Because TFA already did it. Finn was a literal nobody who, for no reasons outside of his own heroism, saw the truth and did the right thing. It worked seamlessly in the story, it didn't draw attention to itself, and it never undermined the mythic nature of the Saga.

But whereas TFA did it with grace, TLJ really overdoes it. Rose is a nobody hero. Rey is a nobody hero. Luke was wrong for expecting Skywalkers to be powerful. By extension, we as fans were wrong for expecting Rey to have a heroic lineage.

 

If the rumors are true about Rey’s heritage in Episode 9, than what would be the point of the TLJ theme about ‘anybody can be a hero’ when she was pre-destined to be the ‘next one’ by the ultimate villain of the 9 movies? Again, it’s just a rumor that should be taken with a grain of salt, but it ultimately shows why 2 visions (JJ and RJ) writing 1 Trilogy is not a good idea. I have many problems with the PT in terms of execution, but there was always one singular vision by Lucas and that is why the 1-6 narrative works.

 

TLJ really did spend a whole movie, taking the people you expect to be on a sort of hero's journey, and make the other characters in the plot the actual hero.

In Poe's plot line Holdo is the actual hero
In Finn's plot line Rose is the actual hero
In Rey's plot line Curmudgeon Luke actual hero

I guess Rian thought this was genius? To me I think it took away from the film in an effort to make a statement, that as you point out, had already been sufficiently painted in TFA. Anyone can be a hero. Got it. I think we got that already though right? I mean we saw the Ewoks turn the war on Endor right? We saw the lowly Gungans stand up to the droid army on Naboo. Seems like well tread territory in the franchise.