Rey's vision with the lightsaber ?

fixed.

 

No. It's not. According with the script and the novel is Unkar Plutt...

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 21, 2016 ---

In the script is described as a "warrior" and in the novel as a "hero"...

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 21, 2016 ---

BESPIN HALLWAY
Darth Vader breathing...
Child Rey screaming "Noooo..."
Master Yoda: "It's energy...." (with eco and a little overlapped with child Rey's screaming)

SHE LANDS ON THE GROUND

Luke (from ESB): "Noooooo...." overlapped with Yoda: "surround us...and bind us"...
Luke on his knees beside R2D2 (with Vader's breathing and Rey screaming "Nooooo....")
Please note that Luke's is near to something that's on fire in this scene. In the script is stated that Rey see a BURNING TEMPLE AT NIGHT, R2-D2 -watches the flames -- and a MAN appears (LUKE, whose face we do not see). He falls to his knees, reaches out to the droid -- with a MECHANICAL RIGHT HAND.

At the very end of Luke and R2D2 scene I hear someone's voice but I can't get what is saying (The Force will be....?)
Then I'm pretty sure that I hear Palpatine's voice right before the warrior/hero is stabbed by Kylo's lightsaber: "Kill him..." and then the warrior screams and falls
Kylo Ren and the other six knights of Ren are revealed under the rain (I think that behind them for a moment a building is visible...The Jedi Temple?)

JAKKU

Child Rey is sobbing hysterical: "Noooo....come back..."
Unkar Plutt holds her right arm and says: "Quiet girl..." (then we see the spaceship leaving Jakku from adult Rey's perspective)

STARKILLER BASE

Obi Wan Kenobi (Sir Alec Guiness): "Rey?..."
Kylo Ren appears and Rey falls back...

MAZ'S CASTLE

Obi Wan Kenobi (Ewan Mc Gregor): "These are your first steps..."


If someone could help with the voice when Luke is on his knees with R2D2 it would be appreciated...

 

we've been talking about parallels in other threads.

so here's one i saw on tumblr this morning (yeah, i know tumblr is a devil, but sometimes people there have interesting ideas).



it's like poetry. it's rhymes.

worth talking about?

mere coincidence?

pick your fire to fuel with this one.

 

hmmmm...... so was she captured and left there by the Knights of Ren

But, if so then Kylo would know that he left her there. Ren would have sensed it was here when he was getting info out of her.

very confusing. However, we assume its Luke but maybe not now.

 

yeah ~ not sure what all the possible implications are (if any).

she's abandoned by her "family"
and then she sees Kylo Ren coming for her.

we'e back to: did the same person who left her on Jakku just now inadvertently come back for her?
is the person coming for her now the destiny she's been awaiting on Jakku?
is it just a hint that she's wrong about what she thinks she's waiting for?

 

The movie is full of visually symmetrical scenes indeed! That the symmetry is deliberate is obvious with those many scenes and how they are staged and played out.

Yep. I am ready to think these two with Rey looking up are not coincidences as well. Interestingly in the first one the ship leaves. In the second another one arrives. Very very intriguing! Hm...

So, could it be that the abduction is a fulfillment of a promise "I'll come back for you"???

Also, today on the website an intersting post about the audio of rey's vision http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016/03/reys-visions-maz-kanatas-castle-audio-analyzed.html. This is the clearest audio file provided I think:
audio http://www.jedicenter.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Rey-Audio.mp3

 

family of the past vs. family of the future?

i try to listen to that track, but i am hampered by tinnitus, so i can only make out so much, alas.

the scene of the ship leaving eclipses into a red portal thing closing (suggesting to me a finality there).
the scene of the ships arriving obviously has no equivalency, though the view of the bottom of the command shuttle is interestingly rectangular.

could be (maybe a stretch) suggesting the cause of the finality of that departing ship has just arrived (just to play around with ideas here).

 

To me the red rectangle in the vision reminded me of the color of Kylo's sword and the next thing in her vision was the future and actually her seeing Kylo's blade appearing!
Also when in her vision she finds herself in the forest I was thinking of the possibility of it being a mix of the future but also the past. According to the novelization when she hears the promise in the dark "I will come back for you, I promise" she is in a snowy forest as well!

I think Rey saying "my family" could be a child misremembering who really left her. As far as I remember nowhere do we have "parents" mentioned, only "family" so a child could interpret a memory of a caring person as "family"...The 2nd time I saw the movie I already had the theory formed in my head that the one who had left her on Jakku must be Kylo...Just becuase of how the vision is structured.
Or the visual symbolism of the parallels of a ship leaving and a ship coming could mean something else...

Maz's words in the basement are a double entendre I think..."Those you are waiting for will never come back, but there is someone who could". In the immediate meaning the person who can be brought back with Rey's help is Luke (as in with your help Luke can come back out of his exile), but on another level, what these words mean (even if Maz didn't mean them at that moment) is that with Rey's help Ben Solo can come back, I think...

I think many are led astray by the fact that since the saber belonged to Luke in the OT Rey is necessarily connected to Luke. I think that is not necessarily true. Also, technically the saber is Anakin's. He made it. (Luke saber is the green one. )

Rey's vision if you analyse it is in fact almost entirely about Kylo. In almost every scene his presence is there. We know that Kylo is obsessed with the heritage he has. vader's heritage. Thus the Bespin corridor In both novelizations Rey sees a boy and she starts going towards him. I think that boy is Kylo, who (who knows?) may have also had a vision of Bespin himself before as well?. Then every single other scene after that is clearly related/connected to Kylo except the one where she is a girl left with Unkar, then the scene that follows is Kylo again. That led me to think (just following visual logic) and before reading anything, just based on my 2nd viewing was that the person who left her on Jakku could be Kylo as well...And now with the VR game in which the saber actually belonged to Ben Solo and Kylo's claim on it seems even more legit (not to mention that according to leaked early storyboards, the scene in the rain with the Knights of Ren is Kylo in possession of the saber).

Also, interestingly there is part of the Knights of Ren rain scene that was only in the trailers but not in the vision cut in the movie. Kylo is alone and the Knights gather near him. Could this mean that Kylo pierces the guy we see mid-strike at something that is at Rey's POV and then the knights come, and gather around him, which is what we see in the vision?



In any case, Rey's vision is hugely important piece of the puzzle and I think we might see it again, but differently in VIII.

And today with this new info about what other voices and bits of dialogue actually are in the vison things become even more interesting...One thing that really stands out is - Why is there so much Obi-Wan dialogue? Apparently it is intentional...

 

i was an early (and vociferous proponent) of Kylo Ren having left Rey on Jakku, but because of their ages, i've wandered off that path.
nevertheless, i do agree with you that somehow everything in Rey's vision is about her connection to Kylo Ren.

i just still think this scene in the rain is either future or it isn't Rey, but Rey experiencing this moment through someone else's eyes. we don't know the perspective of the vision because she sees herself as a child (she's not in her own body in that moment).

i also agree with you that the saber is not Luke's ~ it's Anakin's and, if you really want to get picky about it, it's actually been in the possession of Obi-Wan longer than anybody. and, like you noted, it's Obi-Wan whose voice we most clearly hear in the forceback.

so why is Obi-Wan reaching out to Rey? through Anakin's saber, and about Kylo Ren?

Obi-Wan is Ben's namesake and the lightsaber should be Ben's inheritance. But it's Rey that these things go to.

 

Yes to all!
Not sure as well anymore if Kylo is the one who left her on Jakku becuase of Pablo's tweets (trolling). Still, I think we shall see about that...

It is very possible that apart from the scene where she is left on Jakku and the last one with the snowy forest she may not have been there at all.
But one thing is for certain, Kylo is practically everywhere in that vision.
Also interesting parallel in the vision (a parallel which just occurred to me) is how when Rey finds herself in the Bespin corridor she walks towards someone (according to to the novelizations, a boy, according to early leaked storyboards that's young Kylo) and then we have Kylo in the rain as if suddenly made aware of her watching him "breaks the fourth wall" and walks determinedly towards her.

As to Obi-Wan. I think the fact that Ben Solo is named after him is no coincidence and will have an important significance. The question is why is Obi-Wan talking to Rey? And in particular, he is addressing her by name so there is no doubt that there is significance for her hearing him.
Is he her grandfather? (My most favourite Rey parentage theory)
And will we have the grandchildren of our two heroes who were so close and basically the most important two people in all previous 6 movies going to continue that connection?
That to me is a satisfying thing to see...

 

My thinking wit it all is that either she is or isnt a skywalker. Lightsaber calls to her. it was Anakin then Luke and now calls her. she takes the lightsaber from Kylo so it attracts to her. the voices she hears is aligned with the lightsaber and the skywalkers(only voices you hear that would connect to Rey are obi/yoda/ani) knowing how to mind trick and stories about Han "the smuggler" and myth/legends of Luke and jedi/sith. I wouldnt be surprise like other threads ive posted that she is lukes daughter or not. im just going with what I think when it comes to Rey and the whole lightsaber thing...

 

eeeek! i'm afraid to hope for too much. it all feels too clean for it to somehow come down to a Kenobi/Skywalker thing. but i wouldn't object!

you make an excellent point about the 4th wall!

i believe Ren and Rey are force-bonded in some fashion, so nothing about the forceback is necessarily literal on any level.
she is seeing him, but that doesn't even mean she's actually there. not any more than he's there when she's left on Jakku ~ which is my pet belief of the moment: he's in her head, not a physical presence at all.
and they are both in Bespin, when neither of them were even born yet.

that would be awesome if in viii, we got the forceback from Ren Ben's pov:
his own experience of Bespin, whatever these events are, his own abandonment, and encountering Rey.

 

If there is a Kenobi/Skywalker thing that would be fantastic I think. A full circle will be made and it will be the most satisfying thing to have. And with all the evidence of symmetry and parallels deliberately made I think there is a very good chance that's what's set up. We'll see. I will probably not be able to contain my joy if it is revealed that she is a Kenobi. That would be fantastic to have the trilogy about the descendants of Anakin (Kylo) and Obi-Wan (rey) being connected in their destinies.
Fantastic. That is a story telling that would make the most satisfying sense.

And speaking of Force bonds, Pablo Hidalgo trolled/tweeted about that too and his opaque response sounded actually sort of encouraging...
(Check out the whole tweet conversation to see the context of his answer...)

 

[QUOTE="FN-3263827, post: 264871, so why is Obi-Wan reaching out to Rey? through Anakin's saber, and about Kylo Ren?

Obi-Wan is Ben's namesake and the lightsaber should be Ben's inheritance. But it's Rey that these things go to.[/QUOTE]

I can think of many reasons why Obi-Wan would want to reach out to both Rey and Kylo. Whether any have basis in story fact.... The most glaring to me is that Obi-Wan saw Anakin as his greatest failure in life, and wants to redeem himself for that by guiding Anakin's grand child/children to the Light and reticfying the negative aspects of Anakin's legacy. If, as is suggested in the PT, Obi has had the right training to manifest as a strong Force ghost, like Yoda, then he is uniquely motivated and placed to be the guardian spirit for Ben and Rey. He was also Luke's main spirit guide in the OT, so makes sense he is continuing that role with the next generation. Also, he was more guardian spirit and mentor to Luke than he ever was with Leia, so it makes a kinda sense for him to do the same for Luke's child, more so than Leia's maybe?

Rey could be a Kenobi, and although there are aspects of Rey being a Kenobi that appeal to me, I still sit on the side of she is Luke's.

As a side note, if Yoda and Obi-Wan had the right kinda training to be able to manifest as Force ghosts, does that mean somewhere along the way Anakin recieved similiar kinda training to be able to appear as a Force ghost at the end of ROTJ? Or did somehow being a stellar Light and dark sider impart a similar knowledge of oneself, effectively the same as Yoda's/Obi's training, allowing Anakin to Force ghost?

 

I swear I can hear Palpatine in the flashback as well. Unless they really distorted Yoda's voice but I think I hear him right before the warrior gets stabbed (Maybe the 'do it' or 'kill him now' lines before Dooku dies) and during the final few seconds of the scene in the rain as Kylo turns to Rey just before it cuts to Jakku I hear him croak something like 'Many jedi..'


But it's very distorted. Does anyone else with better hearing hear things differently?

 

The force is strong in my family trailer, episode eight teaser, the forceback. No it's not all about Kylo its about Vader. His mechanical breathing is heard all the way through those shots that his is signature.

 

I hear a couple of others too, like Obi-Wan beginning to say the " Force will be with you " (0.27) from when he leaves Luke at the Death Star to shut off the tractor beam and him also saying " you will do it alone " ( 0.38 ) from Dagobah in TESB. I don't hear him say " do it " but in regard to the " many Jedi " you hear, I'm hearing Palpatine say " even Jedi ".

I marked the times of what I'm hearing from this enhanced audio. http://www.jedicenter.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Rey-Audio.mp3

 

I used to think it was Kylo who left her on Jakku as well, but the more I watched the movie, the more I didn't think so. He may have known her through his own visions, that they have a connection through the Force, and may have never met before irl. Really looking forward to dissecting that vision scene through the DVD myself. I know it's been discussed on other threads and such about the boy she sees, it's possible that Kylo Ren was that boy and he saw many of the same visions. He recognized the light saber by sight? By it's energy in the snow, it's is very possible he has touched it before himself.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 28, 2016 ---

Palpatine's laugh is certainly in there.

 

that's interesting. i feel like it's Anakin who needs to do the atoning, not Obi-Wan. i still kinda don't think Obi-Wan's presence in the vision has anything to do with Rey's parentage, but more to do with Anakin and the lightsaber. but i like the idea of Obi-Wan sort of lingering on to mentor Anakin's grandchild or grandchildren in one way or another.

i agree that something about all of "this" is about Anakin/Vader. no entirely sure what yet. the lightsaber? the legacy? the Skywalker lineage? perhaps all of the above.